Phoebe's Legacy: Lessons in Leadership for Today’s Women

Summary

In our exploration of the New Testament, we turn our attention to the remarkable figure of Phoebe, as referenced in Romans 16:1-2, a woman of notable esteem and an exemplar of leadership within the early church. This episode delves into the significance of Phoebe's role as a trusted servant and bearer of Paul's epistle to the Romans, highlighting the profound trust and respect Paul held for her. As we discuss her character, we illuminate how Phoebe exemplified qualities of servant leadership, confidence in Christ, and courage, transcending the constraints of her time to fulfill her divine calling. We also consider the implications of her actions for women today, encouraging listeners to draw inspiration from Phoebe's example as they navigate their own paths of faith and leadership. Join us as we celebrate this extraordinary woman who embodies the essence of stepping forward in faith, illuminating the way for others in the pursuit of their divine purposes.

Takeaways

• The discussion centers on Phoebe, a remarkable woman mentioned in Romans 16:1-2, emphasizing her vital role as a leader in the early church, embodying the qualities of trust and service.
• Phoebe's journey to deliver Paul's letter to the Romans illustrates not only her physical courage but also the immense trust placed in her by Paul, indicating her significant status in the church.
• The podcast highlights the importance of women like Phoebe in the New Testament, who defied societal norms and served as leaders, demonstrating that women can indeed hold positions of influence and authority in faith communities.
• Listeners are encouraged to emulate Phoebe's confidence in God's calling, recognizing that each individual has unique gifts to fulfill their divine purpose, just as she did in her time.
• The conversation underscores the necessity of unity among Christian women and men, advocating for a collaborative spirit that transcends comparisons, enabling both genders to work together in fulfilling God's mission.
• Finally, the episode stresses the transformative power of embracing one's identity in Christ, as exemplified by Phoebe, who confidently navigated her role despite societal constraints, serving as a model for contemporary believers.

Host & Guests

Tamara K. Anderson @tamarakanderson

Tamara, founder of Women Warriors of Light, is a dynamic speaker, award winning author, and a podcaster. She is driven by her Christian faith to inspire faith in Jesus Christ. Alongside her husband, Justin, she navigates the joys and challenges of parenting four children with autism, ADHD, and mental health hurdles. You can find out more about Tamara on her website: https://www.tamarakanderson.com/

Karalee Anjewierden @pocket.miracles

Karalee Anjewierden is an author, motivational speaker, and fulfilled mother of six. She has appeared on several podcasts and presented at various retreats and events. Karalee is an avid story seeker, passionate about connecting with people and places. She loves to travel and does so extensively, collecting new and wonderful stories, friends, and miracles she can share along the way. Find her online at www.pocketmiracles.com. She is also on Instagram and Facebook @karaleeanjewierden 

Wendi Christensen @wendichristensencounseling

Wendi is the co-founder of Women Warriors of Light. In addition to being a wife and mother, she is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with over 30 years of experience. Wendi is an intuitive counselor helping individuals release pain, renew hope, and restore light through forgiveness. You can find out more about Wendi on her website: https://wendichristensencounseling.com/

Transcript

Keywords

Only used for YouTube and don’t affect your podcast elsewhere.

women leaders in the New Testament, Phoebe in the Bible, Christian women empowerment, women of faith, Arise Women of God podcast, New Testament church, women in ministry, biblical examples of women, serving others in faith, confidence in Christ, women warriors of light, spiritual insight for women, roles of women in the church, encouragement for Christian women, God's calling for women, women of God podcast, women in leadership, biblical women leaders, following God's purpose, nurturing in faith

Tamara K. Anderson

00:00:01.520 - 00:00:19.080

Were women leaders in the New Testament church, And how can we follow their example today? Stay tuned because this is what we're going to dive into today as we talk about one of these amazing New Testament women.

Intro/Outro

00:00:19.080 - 00:01:25.080

Are you a woman who knows God is calling you to something more, but you're unsure where to start or how to grow it into something impactful? You are not alone, and you're in the right place.

Welcome to the Arise Women of God podcast, a show for Christian women who feel called to shine his light and step into their divine purpose.

Each week you'll hear stories of faithful women, both from the Bible and today, who heard God's voice and chose to say yes even when it felt uncomfortable or uncertain, to step with faith into the unknown. You'll walk away with encouragement, spiritual insight, and practical steps to follow those holy promptings in your own life.

So let's Arise together as women warriors of light. Let's do it God's way. God strong.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:01:25.080 - 00:01:30.180

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Arise Women of God podcast. I'm your host, Tamara K. Anderson.

And joining me today are Wendi Christensen. She's my co founder of Women Warriors of Light. We welcome Wendi!

Wendi Christensen

00:01:30.340 - 00:01:33.860

Thanks, Tamara. I'm so happy to be here and.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:01:33.860 - 00:01:40.020

We'Re glad to have you. And Kari Anjewierden. And Kari, thanks for being with us today as well.

Kari Anjewierden

00:01:40.820 - 00:01:43.620

Thank you for allowing me to be on. I'm excited.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:01:44.820 - 00:04:33.630

All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break from the Women Modern women warrior spotlights we've been doing and shine a spotlight on one of our New Testament sisters today and kind of dive into how she was able to arise and fulfill her divine calling back in a time when women didn't stand out as much. But Jesus kind of helped elevate women. I believe in his ministry and we see so many women following him and shining their lights.

And so today we're going to talk about one of those women who is probably a little bit lesser known. And there's only a few little verses said about her, but we can glean a lot from these two verses.

And so the woman we're going to talk about today is Phoebe. And we can find her mentioned in Romans chapter 16, and it's verses one and two. That's all we have, folks. That's all we have on Phoebe.

But we're gonna. We're gonna do an entire episode on her. So just watch. It's gonna be good.

So I'm gonna back up really quick here and say that one of the things that we find with Phoebe here is. She is actually carrying this, chapter 16, this letter that Paul is writing to the Romans with her.

So she has been entrusted with this document that he's written, and she's taking it to the church in Rome. And so we'll talk a little bit more about the trust that must have existed between Paul and Phoebe, but in a little bit.

But we'll read these verses, and then we'll dive into some of the words that describe Phoebe.

And we're reading this from the King James Version, and there are several others, but it says in verse one, I commend unto you Phoebe, our sister, which is a servant of the church, which is at Cenchrea, that ye receive her in the Lord as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you. For she hath been a succourer of many and of myself also. And so that is what we have about Phoebe.

And I thought I would just pause right there and say, all right, ladies, you've had a chance to kind of look at some of these words and pray about Phoebe. What were some of the impressions that you had as you dove into understanding who she was and what she did in the New Testament church?

Wendi, let's start with you.

Wendi Christensen

00:04:34.110 - 00:07:18.870

Well, the first thing that I noticed is he calls her your. Our sister. And you can tell that he. Excuse me. That Paul has a very loving relationship.

And almost like he thinks of her like a dear sister to him, and he can see the benefit that she brings. And it's almost like this respect that just oozes from just those two verses. I think that he has for her sister a servant.

She has been a sucker of many, including him. So you know that she loves others, she serves others. She has nurtured and is a nurturer, and that she loves the gospel just in those two verses.

I think it's amazing. And you can also tell that he respects her because he's like, you know, whatever she needs, give it to her.

I want you guys to treat her well and treat her like she has treated us. So you can tell she's been a good woman because she has treated him well and she's treated the church well.

And he says a lot there, I think, in those two verses.

And she's been a servant of the church, which means she has done a lot for him and for the church where he's at, and the fact that he's willing to trust her. When you were saying that. I love World War II novels.

They're some of my favorite and the first thought I had was, you know, back In World War II, I read a lot of books where women were used as spies a lot because, number one, they were trustworthy, but also, number two, they didn't. They weren't always picked up that easily. Right. Because they had a lot of different roles that women fulfilled. So it was.

It was kind of their underground tactic to often use women in like, for example, secretarial positions, but to be spies for the Allies in World War II. And kind of, I thought, I. As we were reading, I thought, I wonder if that's why he sent it with her.

Because, you know, they were under attack back then and they were not friendly towards Christians. They did not like people who believed in Christ. And I thought he must have really trusted her if she was kind of like, in a way, a spy. Right.

Like where she had to deliver this letter from one. From one part of the church to the next part of the Church. He really trusted her to be able to go and deliver this letter. And.

And I think had great respect for her. So that's where my mind went. Carrie, I'm curious to hear where yours went.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:07:19.670 - 00:07:58.490

I know, I know. I am, too.

And it's interesting, as you were saying, kind of whatever she needs do reminded me of that passage in the New Testament where Mary, the mother of Christ, before his first miracle of turning water into wine, she says to the servants, whatever he says to you, do it. It's that same level of, I trust this person implicitly, you know, and. And she's not going to lead you astray. So, yeah, love that.

All right, Kari, what were your thoughts as you were diving in? Were there any words that stood out to you or things that you loved looking at?

Kari Anjewierden

00:08:00.250 - 00:08:24.250

One of the things that I was thinking of was the role of women in that day specifically. And it wasn't generally, they weren't high status people, but it feels to me like Phoebe is one of high status, number one.

You know, you think of Paul before, as he was Saul, before he became Paul.

And. And what would his thoughts have been about women at that time?

And then as he moves into this possible role, if you will, to have someone that he considers a sister, somebody that he knows has his back, that he knows he can ask anything of. You know, that ask is probably a very difficult ask. Go to Rome, Take us to Rome.

And she's willing to do it, which tells me that she must have had some status in society. She must have had something that allowed her to move in different circles. And I don't Think every woman of that day would have had that ability.

So she must have been a woman of consequence, but she was also a woman of God. She was a woman of God. She wanted to be with Paul. She wanted to be with the saints. She wanted to be serving them and helping them, Sister.

You know, she loved the people. She served the people.

And the fact that she is, like Wendi said, willing to risk her life to take this message to the saints in Rome, when life there was so uncertain. If you were, you know, a part of the church, it just. Wow.

I have so much respect for her myself in. In just studying that, because it tells you who she was at the core. She was not afraid to do what God asked her to do.

She was not afraid to put herself out there and to love the people and to be a part of this movement that was so dicey, if you will. I don't know what word I'm looking for, but just in those days, it might have been pretty difficult, you know, because they were persecuted so much.

So those were some of the things that I, as I was reading that I was pondering. The other thing that struck me was, as he calls her sister, a servant of the Church. She was a church leader.

She was a woman in those days and was a church leader. That, to me, is so significant.

And I love that you started, Tamara talking about Christ and his love of women and how he brought women into his circle, which was not something that was done in those days. Women were inferior. Right. And. And I love that Paul has carried on this tradition that the Savior started that women can be effective leaders, too.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:11:22.370 - 00:13:54.060

I love it. There were two thoughts I had as you were speaking. One was the word confidence.

And the more that I've learned about Christ and dove into the Scriptures and served him throughout my life, I think there comes a certain level of confidence, and it comes in Christ. Right. I guess there's no other way to say it but a confidence in Christ.

And I can see that she has that confidence enough to go on a crazy, scary mission, confident enough to settle into her role as a woman. And I love the word succor, you know, to succor those in need.

We see it several times in the Scriptures, but it means to provide help, aid, relief to someone in near distress. And as I was looking at it, one of the descriptors was with an urgency, like a mother to her child.

And I just thought, since women are all mothers, in one degree or another, we all mother, whether they are children born by us or those around us. We have that tendency to mother. I love the image of a mother running to the aid of a child. And here she was going to people she did not know.

And yet in a mothering role. I'm going to come here and I'm going to love and serve you as well. Right. So. So beautiful.

The other thing you mentioned that is she was a leader in the church. It was interesting as I was diving into this, that this was the.

The word servant was translated from the word diakonos, which means deacon or a deaconess. And so that's where the speculation comes that she held some kind of leadership role and this New Testament church in this area in Cenchrea. And.

And so there she is. She's going to Rome. And what is she going to do there? We have no idea. You know, is she going to help set up a woman there to.

To fulfill the nurturing role in the church? You know, I don't know. We don't know.

But we know that whatever it is that she did, she was confident in Christ, she was inspired, and she wasn't afraid to go and do what God wanted her to do. So just beautiful. Wendi, any thoughts?

Wendi Christensen

00:13:54.540 - 00:16:51.730

Just as we've been talking, I looked up a map to find out because it says that she was from. She was leaving, which is at synchria, not seeing. That's in Greece, and that she was traveling to Rome. Right.

So I looked up on my map, my little map here to go. Okay, how far away is that? You know, there. It's kind of across a waterway to get to Rome. It was in here. It says 18 hours and 45 minutes.

Well, that's probably by airplane or like, not airplane, but if you could drive there. And obviously you can't just drive there, but it says it. She would have had to have traveled close to 750 miles to reach Rome.

And I just thought, well, that's a long ways. And that would have been a whole different culture. Right. It would have been a different language for these people. And that takes a lot of bravery to.

To just travel that far. And she didn't have the modern, you know, conveniences that we have today. A train or. I'm sure there could have been, you know, some.

A ship, because it looked like she would have had to cross. Maybe some water. I can't. 100. That's a long ways for her to travel. That would have been a long journey back then.

You know, she would have probably walked a lot or had to get, what, carriage rides or something. I don't even know how they would Travel back then.

I know they did a lot of walking, so it would have taken her a long time, I think, to get to those saints. And no wonder Paul was like, you treat her well when she gets there, where he's like that, ye receive her in the Lord as become of saints.

And he's almost teaching them, okay, Saints will receive her well. So if you're truly saints in the gospel, you will receive her well, and you will show her the amount of love that she has shown to us.

You will do the same. It's amazing how much you can pack into these two little verses of the character. Right?

The character of her and who she must have been in order to make this. This journey. That wouldn't have been easy. I. I don't love. I love traveling, but I don't love traveling.

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with it. Right. I traveled a pretty far distance in April. I went to another country.

And even though it was fun and it was wonderful to go there, I couldn't wait to get back home because it was a lot. And we trav on a lot of different.

We were on the Metro and on the train and on the airplane, and it's a lot to travel, and it would have been so much more in those days. So she was very dedicated in order to take this on and take this information for Paul.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:16:52.050 - 00:17:04.850

Wow. Wow. Thank you so much. That's a beautiful insight. I didn't even think about the distance, but you're absolutely right. Courageous.

Kari, any additional thoughts you'd like to tack on there?

Kari Anjewierden

00:17:06.050 - 00:19:53.050

Well, considering the distance, then that brings up a couple more things. Thoughts for me. Safety as a woman, as you're traveling, if she didn't have any companions traveling with her, it wouldn't have been safe.

It's not safe now. It wouldn't have been safe then either. And that's quite a distance. And. And then money.

It would have taken money to get where she was going because she would have had to lodge and eat on her way. Right. And so what was her status financially? And that was one of the things that.

As I was looking at those two verses, and I'm like, there's not very much here, but maybe there's something that scholars have discovered. So I. I had to plug it into AI just because, you know, that's what we do these days.

And it talked about her as financial support to the church as well. And I thought that significant, right. As a woman in those days, that she could financially support.

So she must have had the funds to do what she was doing, again, that idea of maybe she was a woman of status, which again, in those days, even more incredible that then she has turned to God and she is willing to put everything on the line for God to, to further his work, to. To show the people how important he is. I love that Paul says, receive her in the Lord. Like, if you love God, then you love her. She's one with God.

Right? Isn't that somewhat what he's saying in that, in that phrase? And then assist her in whatever business she has need of you.

So not only is she coming to serve you, but she has some business that she needs to take care of too. And you're supposed to assist her in this business of the church that she's taking care of, probably on Paul's behalf. Right. But.

But the fact that he is an apostle has to tell the saints, hey, receive her, help her. I think that's significant too. Right? Because in those days, as a woman, she would have been looked down on.

So for him to say, hey, no, this woman, she's one to, to take notice of. She's. She's a woman of God anyway.

Those were some of the thoughts that struck me as you were talking, Wendy, about the distance and about just her standing with God.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:19:54.810 - 00:22:07.040

I was just thinking a couple of. Another word that popped into my mind as you were talking was humble to be a woman of status and yet be humble.

And I think those are qualifications that God wants to see in leaders of his church now as well as then. He looks for people who, even if they are in a position of authority, that they will be humble. And it sounds like she was.

She was humble and she was a servant leader. I guess that's another word that comes to mind as Jesus was. He was a servant leader. Right.

And those are beautiful words that we can seek to emulate today. To be humble, whether you're in a position of leadership or not, when you're a follower of Christ.

We strive to take on us the attributes of Jesus Christ and. And we can see those attributes coming out here in Phoebe. Right?

That she was humble, she was Christ like she was confident, and that she could be a woman of means and yet still remain a servant leader.

She truly had taken Jesus into her soul and was acting as he would act and succoring those in need and helping them and ministering to them as women naturally can do. Right. That is one of our roles is to run to those in need as a mother runs to her children. So.

All right, ladies, I'd love to start wrapping it up here and also kind of throw a question at you as we're wrapping it up. So what do you think we can glean here from Phoebe as women of faith today so that we can better arise and do things God's way, God's strong.

Any thoughts? Kari, let's start with you and then we'll pop over to Wendi. And if you have any final thoughts you'd like to tack on, go ahead.

Kari Anjewierden

00:22:09.840 - 00:23:42.900

You know, there's so much talk these days about women versus men or some of those things, and I, I love that they are unified. I think for me, this shows that as women and men, we can come together and we can work together.

I think it's the turning to God that allows that unification to be more meaningful rather than the comparison thing. Right. That often as women we compare with each other, but I also think we compare ourselves to men.

And I don't see any of that happening in these verses. There's no comparison. They both are standing solidly, confidently in their roles in who they are. And I think we can do that too in our day.

That we can love God, we can serve God, and we can stand confidently in our position as a woman, as a man with the gifts that he's given us and use those to unify each other and to strengthen each other instead of using those to tear each other down or to say, I'm better than you in some way. Right. To realize, no, we can be equal in this and just stand strong together. And I think for me, those are the things that stuck out to me.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:23:44.590 - 00:23:51.470

Love it. So, so good. Thank you for sharing that. Wendi, what would you like to tack on?

Wendi Christensen

00:23:52.430 - 00:27:48.150

Just kind of going along with what Kari was saying. I was just reading an article called Phoebe Through the Eyes of Paul.

But he, it says Paul taught that women were second class citizens in God's kingdom. Or did he? And then it goes into how Paul spoke of one specific woman. Phoebe is telling. We know about her only through Paul's eyes.

And what did he see? That's how the article.

So I was just kind of glancing through it and what's interesting is it talks about considering the patriarchal culture of the time, it's amazing that he affirmed there were 28 CO workers in his ministry and Phoebe was like the top of his list. Right? Because he, the way that he talked about her. Scholars agree that Paul wrote Romans.

Yet it's hard to believe that the man who authored Romans thought that women shouldn't speak in the church or that women were easily deceived or shouldn't teach. They say, no, he did. He did believe that.

And it's interesting because something that they do highlight is when somebody delivered a letter, which this was fascinating, not only did they just deliver the letter, but it talks about how they would have probably rehearsed it because you're delivering the words of that letter to the Romans. It would have been the Roman saints.

And that she would have known Paul's character enough that she would have used the same facial expressions, the same tone of Paul to deliver that letter. He would have entrusted her with the message she delivered. So she probably would have rehearsed it with Paul.

Is this how you want me to deliver the message? Is this how you want me to say it? And it would have been exactly as Paul would have delivered it.

So that, like, to me goes, wow, he really had a lot of faith and trust in this woman, that she would deliver this beautiful message. And I look at, you know, as I think about today, we face the challenges that we do.

I think we can compare that even to our Savior, Jesus Christ, in reading the words of him through these trusted prophets, right? Am I reading the words of the Scriptures as Christ delivering those to me? Am I taking them to heart? Am I living by them? To be called one of those.

I want to be. It makes me want to be one of the women like Phoebe, where I'm trusted and that.

That the Lord can trust me to represent him, to be a disciple of him, that he can trust me to be a nurturer of the people around me as well, that I sucker those around me like Phoebe suckered the people around her. I would want him to talk about me like Paul talks about Phoebe. I want. I want her to be received.

I want me to be received as a trustworthy, loving individual. And how those same words about me spoken.

And so I think she's a beautiful example, as you look at this, how Paul was telling the Romans that he knew Phoebe well and he endorsed her without reservation. I want to be that same one for the Lord. I want to be that way where the Lord could endorse me and say, I trust her. You can listen to her.

I trust what she says. I trust the message that she gives you because she knows me well.

And I know that her message that she delivers will be a message that I would endorse and treat her well as because of who she is. Like, wow, I want to be that way, too. I don't know. It's just a beautiful way to look at God loves us so much. And. And he holds us in high regard.

And we need to remember that we are seen as equals, I think, to the men around us as well, because the Lord really loves his and appreciates women. Just like Paul appreciated Phoebe.

Tamara K. Anderson

00:27:48.310 - 00:29:29.970

Thank you for sharing that. That was beautiful. As I've been thinking of our sweet sister Phoebe, a couple of things have kind of gelled in my mind.

And one of them is that she knew who she was in God's eyes. And it goes back to that confidence.

Confidence in Christ knowing who you are, not trying to replace anybody else or trying to do things their way, but doing things God's way through you. That he doesn't expect Phoebe to be a Paul. He expects Phoebe to be Phoebe.

And he's given Phoebe the gifts that she needs to be the best Phoebe she can be. And so we can take that same confidence in ourselves. Know who you are as a daughter of God.

Know that you have the gifts and talents God needs you to use to minister to people all around you right now. Are those gifts and talents fully developed? Probably not. But that's part of the process, right?

Is is gaining confidence in those gifts letting God stretch you a little bit to develop the gifts that you need a little more. Because he will use you for good, just as he used Phoebe for good.

And so I commend unto you Phoebe, just as it says in the scriptures, find strength in her courageous actions and step forward a little more in your confidence that God has called you to fulfill your mission your way and do it God strong.

Intro/Outro

00:29:31.810 - 00:30:27.390

Thanks for tuning in to the Arise Women of God podcast brought to you by Women Warriors of Light.

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